Vosper Cousins: October 2016

Monday, October 31, 2016

FW: Jewish link in Arundel family line.

Hello Vosper Cousins!

Linda Wilson, one of our Vosper Cousins has found what looks to be another Jewish link on our tree, going back from the Arundel side of the family (See her email below). Thanks so much, Linda, for sharing your research!

I also have Joan Jewe in my tree at http://person.ancestry.com/tree/47009625/person/24426561956/facts but have no facts to corroborate this (I apparently got it from an unsourced Ancestry tree).

I would like to find some collaboration that the Jewe and Jeue surnames are accurate, and that they were references to their religious heritage, and not just a spelling variation (ie “Jewel”) – does anyone have any additional information about this? I have not done any real research on the Arundel line, but have never heard of any Jewish connection.

This line with Jewish heritage is in ADDITION to the Vosper Jewish line. We know this because Robert Vosper’s Y-DNA test came back with a Jewish haplotype, and this is only passed from father to son, no women get the Y chromosome, and therefore it could not come from the Arundel line.

Happy Halloween to those of you who enjoy that sort of thing….we went to a party Saturday night and had a bit too much fun! My feet are still recovering from my first experience at dancing since ‘the accident’…..

Cousin Teri

From: Linda Wilson
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:26 AM
To: Info Seeker
Subject: Jewish link

Hi Teri

I found the Jewish link. I suspect that during the Crusades, the knights of St John befriended Israelites to gang up against the Saracens and so Jews Came to England.

My 15th GGF was Nicholas Arundel (1399-1463)

He married Johanna St John (1408-1462)

Her mother was Joan Jewe (1375-1440)

whose father was William Jeue 1354-1430)

Kind Regards

Linda Wilson

From: Info Seeker <infoseeker1980@gmail.com>
Sent: 28 October 2016 23:56
To: 'Linda Wilson'
Subject: RE: Another ENGLISH Vosper Cousin and other news

I hadn’t planned that far away, but I’d heard about it from a guy who runs the Pigrim Museum in Leiden. They are doing a big celebration there, as well.

Sounds like you have a great trip planned!

Teri

From: Linda Wilson [mailto:splish.splosh@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 11:10 AM
To: Info Seeker
Subject: Re: Another ENGLISH Vosper Cousin and other news

Are you planning to come over to the UK for the Mayflower 400 year anniversary? the Plymouth New Museum will open in April 2020 ready for the celebration. We are expecting quite a few to come over from the States.

I found a Jewish ancestor a while ago, I will let you know when I've had a serious look. I seem to remember that she was called "Jane the Jew" lived about the same time as Richard III.

Afraid I can not join you in Florida in December as I will be in Chile, Antartica, Argentinia.

Kind Regards

Cousin Linda Wilson

From: Info Seeker <infoseeker1980@gmail.com>
Sent: 28 October 2016 17:54
To: Info Seeker
Subject: Another ENGLISH Vosper Cousin and other news

We have a new Vosper Cousin joining our little group – Malcolm Lockhart, from Somerset, England. I have attached an updated Cousin Chart – Malcolm’s line is located in the 5^th column from the right, and his closest cousins are William Williams in Delaware (5^th cousins 1x removed), and John Elliott Vosper in Australia (5^th cousins, if I calculated correctly…). He is an 8^th cousin to me, according to Ancestry’s calculator.

In other news, Moira, John Elliott’s wife, tells me they have received the Y-DNA kit we sent out, and was scheduled to have sent it back to FTDNA last weekend. The results of this kit are anxiously awaited, as this is one of the few male-to-male Vosper surname lines we have, and we hope the results will confirm Robert Vosper’s DNA results, which confirm the Jewish ancestry reported in various English sources.

Malcolm, it may be a surprise to you that we have traced our ancestry back to being Jewish – many of us who have DNA tested show small amounts of Ashkenazi heritage. To store all our Jewish related material I have created a placeholder person on my Ancestry tree which you can access here: http://person.ancestry.com/tree/47009625/person/24454081783/facts

I’ve been overwhelmed with a new DNA project I’m working on, trying to find common chr. segments in descendants of George Soule, Mayflower passenger, and that’s kept me from working on much Vosper stuff. I have received my copy of “The Lost Jews of Cornwall”, but have only gotten as far as looking in the index for “Vosper” and “Trevosper”, to no avail. The first chapter seems to deal with the earlier times in Cornwall, but, at a glance, does not contain any particulars for our help as genealogists. A deeper reading is required….

Sure wish I had known all my English Vosper Cousins when I visited Cornwall and England a few years ago…. But, on a positive note, I hope to meet up with some of our Vosper Cousins in Florida when I visit there in December….

Cousin Teri

Friday, October 28, 2016

RE: OOOPS, missed Tricia on the cousin chart, and some DNA answers

Hi Tricia and other Vosper Cousins.

First, so sorry about not putting Tricia on the Cousin Chart, I have updated it, and it is attached. This just slipped by me. 19 family lines now – wow!

I have also not put Richard Barry Willis on the tree, as I don't have the connection between his forefather Rev. John Vosper, who died in New Zealand, and our tree. I'm sure he's connected, I just don't know where….Kay, have you requested his death certificate or the book, " Reverend John Vosper : the man behind the street name " by Patsy O'Shea? It may contain his parent's names in Cornwall, which will probably show how he links into our family. (If any of you have come across a Rev. John Vosper who left Cornwall for Australia/New Zealand, about 1900, please let us know – or if you could check your library and its affiliated libraries for copies of the book, that might be helpful, too).

Tricia asked some questions about the DNA test (see message below), and I thought the answers might be of interest to everyone:

· Problems with spitting for the DNA test for Ancestry.com: This is a fairly common problem. There is some good news here, though: If the sample you give to Ancestry is not viable, they will replace the kit with another. I recently spoke with someone who was in much the same situation as you. He was so concerned that he bought two tests and used the mucous that accumulated in the breathing apparatus his mother was using to fill one of the Ancestry tubes. It worked just fine! If you decide to use this approach, (don't bother with buying two kits) try to avoid contamination, as much as possible. If this seems like it is going to be impossible I suggest you use FTDNA's test. FTDNA.com has a FamilyFinder test which is basically the same test as Ancestry does, but uses a swab to collect the saliva, and is much easier to use with very ill donors. The results will not show on Ancestry.com, but we can still use them to compare on GedMatch. Anything is better than nothing!

· Yes, it is best to get the oldest members of your family, as they have twice as much of your ancestor's DNA as you do. Your mother's DNA will have only her side of the family. Your kit will have both your mother's and your father's – so it would be good to get both of you tested.

Tricia also asked about family rumors that the Vosper family was from Germany. I think Graham said that his family rumor had the family coming from Holland. At least one officious document states, without substantiation, that the family came from Silesia. Ashkenazi Jews were most commonly from Northern Europe, including Germany, Holland, and Silesia. One might put together a theory from all of this that our family came from Silesia via Germany and Holland, relocating to Cornwall at some point, probably to take part in the tinning industry. Unless we get really good at reading old English documents (I can make nothing of them), and we stumble upon a hidden treasure trove of info, we may never know. It is my hope that the Y-DNA tests will eventually lead us to the portion of Europe that our Vosper ancestors came from.

Have a good day, everyone!

Cousin Teri

vospercousins.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Tricia Coles
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 10:41 AM
To: Info Seeker
Subject: RE: Vosper family tree connections

Hi Teri,

Many thanks for your latest email today about a further cousin in Somerset.

I apologise for not replying to an earlier email from you about my Mum and a DNA test.

I've been a bit occupied with house things. New carpets have now been laid and our furniture is out of store. My little bother has been to visit visit for a few days, and also my sister in law.

I hope you have recovered from your ankle injuries.

I have not been able to sort DNA test for Mum - I don't think spitting is going to work for Mum. Taking a swab from Mum's mouth might be more realistic, but that would be a different sort of test kit and I guess might not be suitable for the Ancestry linking and how would I get such a kit etc.? I now thinking that I will do the test with the kit, but I am still curious about Mum's DNA especially as due to her age its a link that much further back with more Vosper genes than me!. It is her Birthday today - 97 - I have just returned from visiting her in her Care Home.

Thanks for all the other emails re additional cousins - all rather mind boggling! By the way I/we don't appear on the most recent cousins tree.

You mentioned a while back about earlier emails that you could send me that would be great, but perhaps in a month or so. Cousin Matthews from Kent has been in touch and he has sent me info on his family from Pilllaton. My 2 x great grandfather Thomas Dyer Vosper and his 2 x great grandmother Mary Emma Vosper were siblings - children (2 of 14 though not all survived childhood) of John Vosper and Mary Dyer. I had always wondered about my grandfather's middle name Dyer and didn't realise that his father was Thomas Dyer and his father also - all 3 the first born sons, I think. I have done very little on Ancestry with my tree, but hope to add a bit more soon.

I do find all the work you have been doing very interesting and that we have some Jewish ancestry. Does this fit with a sort of rumour from my past that we had some German ancestry??

Kind regards

Tricia

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 8/9/16, Info Seeker wrote:

Subject: RE: Vosper family tree connections

To: "'Tricia Coles'"

Date: Thursday, 8 September, 2016, 20:50

Hi Tricia,

Any luck on your mother's

DNA?

Your Vosper cousin,

Teri

-----Original Message-----

From: Tricia Coles

Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 4:23 AM

To: Info Seeker

Subject: RE:

Vosper family tree connections

Hi Terri,

Yes, my mother is

Della Elizabeth Vosper and does appear on someone else's tree or trees along with her brother Owen, who I have yet to add to mine. Been a bit busy with house stuff ,so haven't had a lot of time to do searches etc.,so sorry I didn't send you a separate email just ancestry invite. Great to receive Vosper cousin email - thank you - quite amazing as I thought there wouldn't be much info when I started the Vosper search fairly recently!. Still working on DNA test for Mum - not that easy as she is always eating and drinking and wouldn't understand, but I hope to sort something - I have received the DNA kit. I'm assuning you can view my tree now and you will see that I have added quite a bit on Mum's maternal side - I have quite a lot of info from family history, so am trying to add it - some also appears on other people's trees, but not all accurate!

Best wishes

Tricia

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 31/5/16, Info Seeker wrote:

Subject: RE: Vosper

family tree connections

To: "'triciacoles'"

Date: Tuesday, 31 May, 2016, 19:49

Hi Tricia, got your invite

today.

Is your mother DELLA? I

found that on someone else's tree. Have sent you a separate email. Have to run to a garden club meeting – have a great day! Teri

From: triciacoles

Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 5:00 AM

To: Info Seeker

Subject: RE:

Vosper family tree

connections http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree100563253/family

Hi Teri,

This is the web

address above. I'm not sure why I am not appearing in the Directory – I also get the same message when I do the search!.

Hope this link works!

RegardsTricia

PS I'm

just trying out my new Microsoft Surface book with Windows 10. It seems really great. Our desk top computer runs on Vista. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From:

Info

Seeker

Sent: 20 May 2016 16:26

To: 'Tricia

Coles'

Subject: RE:

Vosper family tree

connections Hi

Tricia!

Unfortunately I get this when

trying to find your

tree: Could you just

copy and

paste the web address from your

browser? Thanks!

Teri

-----Original

Message-----

From: Tricia Coles

Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016

5:42 AM

To: Info Seeker

Subject: Re: Vosper family tree connections Hi Teri Thank you for your email.I have just today started a family tree - its called Vosper/Woolway. Its rather patchy as I haven't quite added all the dates, but I guess you will see where it slots into the vast Bennett family tree - I can also see that there are a lot of links to other family trees on my maternal grandmother's side - though I new some of this info already. Hopefully you can see my tree under the public family tree list. How it all works is all rather new to me - in past I have only just looked at individual census records etc. I have not added anything on my father's side as one of my cousin's has researched this and it also goes back a long way! And yes I hope I can help out with some records in the future. Best wishesTricia--------------------------------------------On

Thu, 19/5/16, Info Seeker

wrote: Subject: Vosper family

tree connections

To: Tricia

Date:

Thursday, 19 May, 2016, 18:52

Patricia!

Always GRAND tohear from another Vosper cousin! Sounds like you have a lot on your plate right now, but we are so happy to add another cousin to our mix. I don't see a tree on your account -- have you got one? I need to connect you to the family, but I don't have any info to go on. Can you give me a bit of info on your Vosper lineage? Then I can add you in.... I've worked really hard on our tree for several years and I'm glad you can enjoy it. I hope you'll take a bit of time to review it person by person, looking at the LifeStories…. Since you live in Devon, perhaps you could be of some help to me in getting some copies of original docs, when you get settled in? Devon docs require me to get a subscription to FindMyPast, but I think they are available for free to Devon residents….

Teri

Another ENGLISH Vosper Cousin and other news

Cousin Teri

Saturday, October 8, 2016

RE: Arundell Links to King Charles and the Civil war

Thank you for sharing that! I also visited the Altarnun church...

This is the baptismal font:

Teri

FW: Arundell Links to King Charles and the Civil war

From: jvosper489

Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2016 9:56 AM
To: Info Seeker
Subject: Re: Arundell Links to King Charles and the Civil war

When I was in Cornwall in 2009 I visited the parish church at Altarnun (where the Northey family lived for some generations) and noticed that there was a small memorial to the then curate of the church who had remained Royalist through the Cromwellian period. Part of the church dated to the 1100's I believe. My 3rd great-grandmother Elizabeth Northey Box (1762-1810) was christened in that parish. She is buried at North Petherwin with her husband John Box and a number of Box relatives and in-laws.

Friday, October 7, 2016

Arundell Links to King Charles and the Civil war

From: yamorant
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2016 6:10 PM

Subject: RE: Arundell Links to King Charles and the Civil war

Hi Teri and other Vosper Cousins

When my husband and I visited Cornwall in April, 2015, we purposely went to see Trerice Manor, home of the Trerice Arundells who we are all related to. We noted the hints in the house that they were Royalists who supported the King during the Civil War. Indeed, it was in reward for their support that King Charles II made Richard Arundell a Baron (and where all those Sirs come from) and the document declaring this is on display in the house.

We do a blog when we travel and here is the paragraph I wrote at the time:

We had already seen portraits on the walls of King Charles I and by now it was pretty clear that the Arundells of Trerice were Royalists and upstairs in the Long Gallery was proof positive: a framed document on the wall is The Peerage Patent of King Charles II, creating Richard Arundell (Yvonne's 1st cousin, 11 times removed) the first Baron of Trerice 1664/5. This was a reward for Richard and his father's services during the Civil War.

There's more about the family in the the blog and photos of the house under the heading The Arundell of Trerice. Believe me, for me it was the highlight of the whole trip. If anyone is interested here is the link:

https://moranttravelblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/14/england-cornwall-week-1/

Best wishes

Yvonne Morant

Perth, Western Australia

Interesting book about Cornwall - 'The Kings General' by Daphne DuMaurier

Hello Vosper Cousins!

I have just finished reading the Daphne DuMaurier book, "The Kings General". It is a historical novel, thinly veiled as an unusual 'romance' novel. Before I read this book I had heard of the Magna Carte, but had no knowledge of the fact that there had been a civil war in England, nor of the effect it had on the people of Cornwall. This novel does an excellent job of explaining the military and political maneuvers of the Royalist cause, as well as describing the horrible economic results of the years of conflict.

Here is a snippet from the Wikipedia entry:

(I have created an "icon" from this media item, and attached it as a fact to those people living during that time)

I had only gotten to the introduction when I seized up the name "Grenvile" – "Sir Richard Grenvile, the Kings General in the West" – when I thought, "That's one of our Vosper Ancestors!"

Indeed it is!

Jane Grenville was my (our) 12^th great grandmother. You should note that Jane lived from 1474-1551, and this book takes place from 1640-1656, so, several generations later. In other words, the Richard Grenvile in this book was not a direct ancestor of ours, but was most likely a cousin. From the chart above you can see that Joseph Vosper, Judith Dinham, and Mary Frane would all have lived through the Civil War – and most of them died very young, probably as a result of the privations they experienced.

One of the phrases I seized upon, with a mind to our genealogy, is the following: "….in Cornwall there are only two families that count for anything…the Grenviles and the Arundells." (page 12) You will note from the chart above that we also descend from the Arundells!

Much of the book takes place in the estate "Menabilly" – here is part of the Wikipedia article on Menabilly:

Tywardreath is located here:

One of the things I found interesting was the amount of travel that was going on in these early days, with trips to Truro, Launceston, Liskeard, and Plymouth mentioned regularly. We stayed in Polperro, near Looe, when we visited Cornwall. It wasn't terribly bad getting around by car, but I just can't image doing it on horseback!

I heartily recommend the book to everyone with an interest in understanding what our ancestors lived through in Cornwall. Hard times, indeed!

In other Vosper news,

I have made contact with a group of Vospers who live near me, but they did not know what branch they were descended from. Supposedly I was referred to the family genealogist, but I have not heard from him.
Our Australian Vosper family has agreed to do a Y DNA test! YEAH! I hope to receive it and get it out in the mail to them this week!

Thinking of our Vosper cousins in Florida, and hoping they are managing well through Hurricane Matthew!

Cousin Teri

From: William Matthews
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 1:53 PM

Subject: Re: Interesting book about Cornwall

Hullo Teri

You have not heard from me for quite some time as we have been at our holiday home in the South of France for much of the summer where we did not have broadband....... that is until yesterday, Wednesday, when we got into the 21st. century and eventually we came on line.

I notice that you are into Daphne du Maurier books such as The Kings General, and Frenchman's Creek as well as Jamaica Inn and all are set in Cornwall. One 'scene' in The Kings General I seem to recall from my reading of the book many years ago was set in Saltash!! The book is set during the English Civil War and, at the time, it was not unknown for executions to take place in the square at the back of St. Nicholas' Church that still stands just off Fore Street. I understand that there was a special piece of land just outside the churchyard of St. Stephens by Saltash church that was unconsecrated ground where villains and other unsavoury characters were buried. In the early 20th. century when the churchyard was reaching capacity the churchyard was extended and actually embraced this land that originally was considered for people of ill repute but by then there would have been no trace of anyone buried there.

Daphne du Maurier lived in a house called Menabilly if my memory serves me correct and that is quite close to Tywardreath shown on your map. The settings for her books really do describe the Cornish landscape extremely well for those that live in more distant parts of the world and are not so familiar with the countryside.

Best wishes

Bill Matthews