Saturday, May 16, 2020

FW: Y DNA and the Jewish connection - Part 2

 

2.        Connections to Jewish heritage from our DNA results. 

a.       Autosomal DNA – ie, Ancestry.com, FTDNA FamilyFinder, or 23andme DNA tests

                                                               i.      When we first began doing DNA testing I downloaded many of the DNA test results and ran them through the ethnicity calculators on GEDMATCH.com.  Most of the cousins had results that showed we come as 2% - 3% Ashkenazi Jewish.  This amount does not show up on Ancestry or the other services, because it is too small.   The amount seems to be appropriate, given that the family converted prior to 1600, and ostensibly married into Christian families from that time forward, diluting the Ashkenazi markers. 

                                                             ii.      I am not sure how accurately these tests can differentiate between Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jewish heritage.  If our family originated in Eastern Europe we would most likely be of Ashkenazi background, if we came from Spain to England, I would think it would show up a Sephardic heritage.  Ethnicity is notoriously inaccurate on these testing services.

b.      Y-DNA – from FTDNA, primarily.  Cousin Robert Vosper has been tested the most vigorously, and has a type of J-Z18186, a subclade of J-M267.  Cousin Ken has also tested, and is confirmed to be J-M267.  The first letter of the Haplotype “J” indicates this is a Jewish Haplotype.

c.        HOWEVER, I received the following email from Joe Flood, of the Cornwall Project on FTDNA:

“[It is ] Not [necessarily] the case that you have shown the Vospers to be of Jewish descent. That is debatable. They were ‘something’ alright, but not necessarily Jewish, as that particular subclade of J1 has not been associated with Jews.

For example – if the founder was a Muslim shaft mining expert who converted, it might have been in his interest to say he was Jewish, as Muslims were truly reviled after the Crusades, whereas the British were at least familiar with Jews.  

 

All speculation of course. But anyway – good work.”

d.      This casts doubt on my understanding of what the “J” means.  The subclade of J-Z18186 is quite rare, and has been found in the middle portion of England and Ireland (I recall).  Here is one school of thought regarding this subclade:

                                                               i.     

                                                             ii.      Source:  https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4517-J-Z18186-Haplogroup&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=2c86d8317b0f3fd775293664251d344e90fb6bf2-1583862157-0-ActRsGZ2I4Wj_BjYkvxieUOFTJCqp5eM6eKkBTO7dGqxZ7cXH_CnXcHdqXislZgtmZgSj2RLvE9q9qIEpUJoyp0jNYjDJ6wMQ_7SWduiS1n_9CSe84x0jvOYbDNPJk10OsFRDs4230uFJ-AjoCqoGSv1kaSwxGGq5sG8nrmVUANr3dfYKcWB1p_g0ccZx-00abc3LpHiitFUIjE9cLKB_80t6cCCHvsAN8NL4q-KAb-mg2aFFa1UekUyC2xj8MH5bmAhz-ZiqUtV6OzoFjrEGP6NdxMx_3ldRk87e_8j6YqEu4Euph5S9yPaL4H7_Peh1ljZwmzEtPEEWtY9A22LlAQ

                                                            iii.      Many of cousin Robert’s matches have the Jordan or Graham surname, and Robert is a member of those Surname projects. 

                                                           iv.      The reality is that all of these are theories, that may or may not pan out.  There are a number of projects underway in various parts of the world to determine the Y-DNA types of ancient human remains, and we can only hope that at some point they will come up with some definitive answers.  Of course, Cousin Robert or some other Vosper Cousin  will have to probably do the Big Y to match up. 

                                                             v.      At some point I would like to run Joe Flood’s theory by experts on the J haplotype, and see what they think.

3.        I think that the combination of literary, autosomal, and Y-DNA results add up to a pretty conclusive theory that the family was considered Jewish at some point prior to 1600.  It is pretty interesting, historically, to me that the family came from a “Jewish refugee” in Liskeard to being Mayor and holding various politically significant jobs in Liskeard, to marrying a descendant of Rollo the Great.  I imagine a “refugee” as being someone dressed in rags and carrying a staff, but I guess he could very well have been a well-dressed man in a wagon full of prized family possessions capable of becoming an influencer in a small town.

 

 

Origins in Silesia comes from:

               

Note that the origin of “Eastern Europe (probably Silesia)” is unsourced, and I have never found another corroborating source.  Silesia is located adjacent to Germany, and had a large population of Ashkenazi Jews.  The history of the area in regard to its Jewish population is interesting, as it indicates that the Jews were persecuted and many fled.  (This is my recollection).  You can read more about it here:  https://www.ancestry.com/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/47009625/person/24454081783/media/c99ea75e-2667-432f-83ed-9989540ea64b?_phsrc=Iow1053&usePUBJs=true    

 

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