Update on Jewish Subclade of our Vosper clan

Hi everyone, hope your holidays were wonderful!

 

Cousin Robert's subclade for his haplogroup has been defined as J-P58.  You can see a description of this from Wikipedia.

 

 

 

Just thought you might be interested!

 

Cousin Teri

 

FW: A new DNA match with "C D" has appeared:

 

 

I believe this person is a relative of our Cousin Leslie, who shares the Boggia and Smale lines….

 

Cousin Teri

Photo Collage - Dec 2017

Photo Collage of Vosper Cousins

Hi everyone!  Thanks for sending in your headshots – the photo collage is attached.

 

Special thanks for the holiday greetings – you all are special to me, and I take delight in keeping in touch.

 

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, and a Happy New Year!

 

Cousin Teri

Living DNA

Hi Cousins!  Thought I’d let you know about a new DNA company in town.  They are different than the other DNA companies at the present time, because they are doing a GEOGRAPHIC matching within the British Isles.  They have recently begun advertising quite a bit – their company is called LIVING DNA.  Below is a copy of a portion of a friend of mines results, who comes from very recent English/Irish immigrants to America:

 

 

 

At the current time they are not doing “cousin matching” but I believe they plan to offer that feature in the coming year. 

 

I was a bit curious about how this would come out for me, so I am going to do a test with them.  Inasmuch as my most recent immigrant ancestor is Charles Vosper from Plymouth (b. 1865), with ancestors from Cornwall, I expect my strongest % will be Cornwall.  However, I have other ancestors who immigrated in the 1600s from Ireland, Scotland, and various places in England, and I’m interested in seeing the results.  You can be sure I will let you know how it turns out!

 

If you haven’t yet tested your DNA, I urge you to take advantage of the holiday sales and test with Ancestry.com. 

 

Just thought I’d send this out while I’m waiting for more Cousin headshots….

 

Later,

 

Cousin Teri

DNA comparisons for Cousin Robyn

Hi Robyn and Vosper Cousins,

 

Over the past few months I've been rather distracted, and several things have 'gotten by' me.  One of those things was comparing Robyn's DNA results with other Vosper cousins.  Today I have finally gotten to it!

 

First, a disclaimer – I track in detail the DNA of 5 Vosper Cousins – myself, my 2 brothers, my 1^st cousin Paula, and my 2^nd cousin, Robert Vosper.   If one of our Vosper Cousins does not match one of those 5 people I have no way to track their kit number, and they inadvertently may not be included in the results I show.  I apologize if this has happened to you – I just have no way to track that many kit #s.  If you have given me a kit # that does not show in the results below, and you'd like me to run the comparison, please re-send me your kit #....

 

OK!  Now for Robyn's results…..First a summary of the positive matches:

 

 

As you can see by the results above, sorted by chromosome number and start position, Robyn matches a number of our cousins, though mostly in small segments.  The exception is Bridget's DNA, where she has a large match.  Among the interesting things I noticed is that Robyn MOSTLY matches people from the New York branch of the Vospers that I descend from.  On the chart you'll notice that Bridget, Paula and Robyn all match on the 15^th chromosome between 89.3 and 91.9 – a very nice 9 cM match!

 

Here are the details, direct from GEDMatch, person by person, with the positive matches first:

 

I get the "teeniest tiniest segment match award" for my match with Robyn:

 

Cousin Paula gets the "matches the most" award, with a total of 13 cM:

 

Cousin Bridget gets the "largest single segment" award, with 11.6 cM:

Cousin Berniece has 2 matching segments:

 

Cousin Barbara (on Lesley Dawson's line) also has a match:

 

Cousin Monica matches on 2 segments:

 

Cousin Robert has 1 matching segment:

 

Cousin Yvonne, also in Australia, has 3 segments:

 

The chart below summarizes the lines that match DNA graphically:

 

 

The remainder of the cousins I tested did not have any matching segments:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope this helps you, Robyn in seeing how your DNA proves our lineage chart.  I would suggest that you add a name to your kit# -- I would suggest something like "Queensland Wms" or "Aus Wms" ….. something vague but suggestive….

 

If there are other Vosper Cousins out there who have DNA tested but have not downloaded to GedMatch, I hope you'll do so, so I can continue to document which segments come from which Vosper lineages.  Please contact me if you need help, and I'll be happy to do what I can.

 

Lastly, if you have sent me something that I have not worked on, I apologize, and beg you to please send me a reminder.  SO MANY things have scrolled off my email screens that it would take me forever to find them. 

I have become a co-director of my local DNA Interest Group, which meets monthly, and I'm afraid that my attention has become too split….

 

Hoping you are all ready for the Christmas season, and that you'll give a little shout-out to our Jewish Vosper origins in some form this year…. I like to think that our mixed religious heritage makes us all feel 'inclusive' during this special time of year….I know I feel that way.

 

 

Cousin Teri

DNA comparisons

Hi Andrea!  I’ve finished the DNA analysis (THANKS again, for downloading to Gedmatch!). 

 

The next step is to compare that with our known family relationship – which we don’t have!  I have attached the Vosper relationships we know in the Cousins Chart.    I have summarized what I understand of your Vosper lineage from your tree below:

 

George Vosper

          |

William R. Vosper m. Grace Manning

          |

Richard Vosper m. Elizabeth Hawkey

          |

Jane Vosper m. John Hurdle  

          |

Mary Ann Hurdle

          |

Rebecca Bussell

          |

Ernest Rice   (Canada)

          |

Gilbert George Rice

          |

Ernest Gilbert Rice

          |

    [Private]

          |

Andrea Rice (Sinclair)

 

That’s at least 8 generations from the closest Vosper. 

 

I don’t see a way to attach your tree to the Cousin Chart.  It’s possible that your tree and mine merge with George Vosper, but I don’t have enough facts to verify that.  A George Vosper from my tree:

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/47009625/person/24453953948/facts

Could this be the same George Vosper from your tree?  https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/39844266/person/160137296233/facts

 

If so, the common ancestor would be Joseph Vosper who married Lyddia Isbell. 

 

Now, to the DNA:  With each generation, the amount of DNA you’d expect to have in common is reduced by 50%.  That’s 8 generations back for my family, 11 generations back for you.  So, in a best case scenario, we might expect to find .05% to .1% in common.  We have 3,589 cM, so .1% would be about 3.6 cM.  The “best case” would be if there was a “sticky segment” which stuck down through all the generations and was inherited.  Unfortunately, with the process of recombination, accidental matches can occur, which are generally considered to be in the 0-6cM range.  In other words, with small segment matches, like we would expect this many generations back, we can’t say for certain they are inherited (IBD) or accidental (IBS).

 

I’ve run your DNA against the individual tests for our Vosper Cousins, and have summarized on the Cousin Chart below, which shows highlighted those people you’ve had small segment matches with:

 

 

When you look at the individual DNA comparisons below you’ll see that the results include a start location, end location, and a cM length.  Most of the segments do not overlap – with one exception:

 

       Kit         Chr.     Start location      End location     cM

       Carol      9         106,367,615       109,734,883     5.0

       Aus         8             9,131,698         11,389,950     2.2

      Badarby 6         158,877,092       161,491,141     3.8

       Robert    8           13,744,265         16,443,534     2.7

       Jasf         8             9,158,808          11,538,674    2.3

       

The two small segments that Aus and Jasf match you on also overlap each other on Chr. 8, indicating  they MAY be an inherited segment, and thus a positive indicator of common inheritance.  In my (amateur) opinion, it is more likely that it is an inherited commonality than a random commonality.

 

Here are all the individual test results, which were obtained by using the gedmatch one to one comparison tool:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to stress that, while a positive match is a sign of a definite relationship, a negative match is NOT a sign that there is no relationship.  A negative result is a natural occurrence of DNA recombination.

 

The bottom line is that we need to figure out how your family fits into our cousin chart – that is the best indicator of relationship that many generations back.  We need to work on getting George Vosper into the proper slot!

 

I have copied our Vosper Cousins on this email, and have also put a copy of the Vosper Blog.  

 

I’m so glad you’ve found our little group!

 

Cousin Teri